Curse

TheOneMephisto · Jun 18, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

The reason is that there is no reason why Anet would put two characters in that have the exact same role. If you look at the characters, all of them play slightly different roles in a party.

Back on topic, I think that this spell should be buffed. I seems that it's kind of like the skullcrack of old days, so incredably bad that noone would even think of even unlocking it. Buff it at least enough so that it slightly warrants the elite skill tag.

Senketsou · Jun 18, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I originally posted this to show the comparison between elite/normal skill's comparisons... If i wanted to, I could compare this to any other class in a means of damage, for an elite this sucks. Its too conditional, im not sayin for pve because in pve your most definitely goin to have somebody, or a spirit around you... but in pvp this is just not the best?... i tested a ganking rit for gvg, and it worked really well, i can clear an entire base out save for the guild lord.

problem is, ritualists have normal channeling skills which are better than this elite...

dreamhunk · Jun 18, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

when I read this, we all know that elemetals atre not doing what they are ment to be doing. What the elemental class needs is more of a buff.

Trylo · Jun 18, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

rit = same AL as eles.

so far eles are bad at damage IMO. lets not start this topic again, BUT

PLEASE dont start with putting the rits in the same position eles are in now Anet!

/signed

B Ephekt · Jun 18, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Hello reading comprehension!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So what your saying is no-one should use the new classes?

WTF, did you even read my post? I never said people shouldn't use the new classes, where did you get that from? If you had actually read my posts, you'd know that I play a ritualist myself. So, yes, obviously I think Rits are garbage and nobody should play them.

Quote:

Ritualists aren't monks? No shit. Ritualists aren't eles, whered you come up with this stuff!?

My point was that comparing Rits to monks and eles is stupid, because they play different roles. That seems like a very simple concept to me, I'm not sure why people seem to have such a hard time grasping it.

Quote:

Just because they're not meant to be dealing tons of damage doesn't mean they shouldn't be aload to with the odd spell, specially when the spell in question is elite.

Rits CAN deal damage, they're just not as effective in it as other professions. I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see any point you might have.

Quote:

I guess we should just ignore Assassins too. They're not Warriors (tanks/damage dealers) and they're not Rangers either (ignoring Critical Barragers).

That had nothing to do with my post...

Quote:

Why do you seem to think we should be comparing the new professions to the old ones and instantly dismissing them as shit in anything that even remotely comes close to there roles?

Are you sure you meant to quote me? Because you seem to have completely missed the point of everything I said...

First of all, I'm not dissing any professions, I even said I play a ritualist. Second, I've been saying that comparing classes to each other is stupid, so I'm not really sure what you're on about there.

Did you even read my post? Your replies seem completely random...

Quote:

We all know Eles suck as damage dealers in the long run, are you more scared that the Ritualist might actually beat them in terms of damage?

LOL, what?

Senketsou · Jun 19, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

lol... ok, that was random... B Ephket, your a smart person really know what your talkin about... and i respect that... but look at it through guild wars's "balanced theory" rits arent balanced? lol... they dont make as good of a healer as a monk, they dont make as good of a nuker as an ele... they cant tank, they cant be rangers, they cant do assassins, monks, or even necro's... not as good as any other class... and as a ritualist, all they can really do is lay spirits or help out a backline which would already be better off having two monks... sooo maybe anet should do something for rits?

personally i still like ritualists alot, its slowly becoming my favorite profession, because as a channeling rit, i can still lay the hammer down and deal as much damage as a double echo nuker... and more efficiently as well. I just wish anet would recognize that the elite channeling spells are a bit lame and could be buffed atleast a little to give some sort of recognizable power, without so many conditions...

I also think that rits can be the best class in the game hands down when played correctly... if you have two rit/a's on a team you can really lay down hard spikes in pvp/gvg that are very very difficult to infuse... I dunno somebody wants to see what im talkin about lemme know in game ill show off my build and how to play it well lol..."Overlord Senketsou" however i dont use any elites >_< as the channeling elites do me no good

Former Ruling · Jun 19, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

they dont make as good of a healer as a monk, they dont make as good of a nuker as an ele... they cant tank, they cant be rangers, they cant do assassins, monks, or even necro's... not as good as any other class... and as a ritualist, all they can really do is lay spirits or help out a backline which would already be better off having two monks... sooo maybe anet should do something for rits?"

A Ritualist, by his own name, is a Ritual.....ist...I mean Summoner. Whats wrong then with one of their major builds is just spamming spirits, is this not what they are named after doing?

Channeling Ritualists...Basically is slow recharge stuff (all of them almost) that is either for AoE, or Dmg Boost based on Spirits. Destruction+Rupture Soul is the reason some get in groups...

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Complaining that Ritualists are limited in pvp.. There are plenty of classes that have limited use for GvGs and stuff. What Necro is being ran that isnt a Tainter or Hex Stacker?

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Don't give me crap about some leet uber build that pwns that you came out with, thats all good, but at the end of the day, Each class has like 3-4 builds AT MAX in pve or pvp respectively, that they are expected to play.

Its the game...

Rhunex · Jun 19, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Why does the rit need more damage? They're support, there's no way around it...they help the party do more damage, and if you help 2 tanks do more damage or help defend weaker units that are targeted first, it's more beneficial to the group than doing TONS OF TEH 1337 DMG telb00n!1!11opne1! OMG PWNED GTHO!!

Seriously. If you're playing a support class then expect to support the party, instead of laying waste to lvl 28 bosses. Leave the fun stuff to people who picked the right class.

Silethas Celalith · Jun 19, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhunex

Why does the rit need more damage? They're support, there's no way around it...they help the party do more damage, and if you help 2 tanks do more damage or help defend weaker units that are targeted first, it's more beneficial to the group than doing TONS OF TEH 1337 DMG telb00n!1!11opne1! OMG PWNED GTHO!!

Seriously. If you're playing a support class then expect to support the party, instead of laying waste to lvl 28 bosses. Leave the fun stuff to people who picked the right class.

thing is, ritualist arent purely a support class. why the heck would anet give a purely support class an attribute that totally focuses on damage?
monks arent purely supportve either, ever heard of smiting prayers?
besides, elementalists, earth ones in particular, have supportive skills too. wards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

channeling Ritualists...Basically is slow recharge stuff (all of them almost) that is either for AoE, or Dmg Boost based on Spirits. Destruction+Rupture Soul is the reason some get in groups....

i dont care theyre slow recharge stuff. spike teams most of the time dont need that fast recharge.

Desert Penguin · Jun 19, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Agreed 100%

Making Rit skills comparable to ele skills is like making wand attacks comparable to warrior hammer attacks. It doesnt make any sense at all!

Hammer attacks require you to get close to the target while wands allow for ranged attacks. Plus, a hammer is part of a warrior's actual attack build, where as a wand is merely "backup" damage when a caster runs out of energy. This is why hammers should always deal more damage than wands.

It is okay for auto-attacks to be unbalanced between classes/weapons, but it is not okay for skills to be that way.

Take a look at Spiteful Spirit (Elite Necro hex) and Empathy (non-Elite Mesmer hex). These 2 hexes are comparable in what they do. They are equally balanced even though they are different professions. Now, how about if we nerfed Spiteful Spirit to be WORSE than Empathy even though it was Elite, and say "Mesmers are better with hexes than Necromancers". Would this justify why SS should be wore than Empathy?

Thom · Jun 19, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senketsou

I originally posted this to show the comparison between elite/normal skill's comparisons... If i wanted to, I could compare this to any other class in a means of damage, for an elite this sucks. Its too conditional, im not sayin for pve because in pve your most definitely goin to have somebody, or a spirit around you... but in pvp this is just not the best?... i tested a ganking rit for gvg, and it worked really well, i can clear an entire base out save for the guild lord.

problem is, ritualists have normal channeling skills which are better than this elite...

Now this is an argument worth pursuing. Comparing elites to non-elites within the same attribute makes sense to me. Area effect skills tend to be underpowered, but are good situationally. This is probably just a bad or situational skill. Some skills are Timmy skills and are simply not good, mostly because they aren't designed for you.

I personally like ritualists as a hybrid class and in roles with don't require too mcuh movement. If you try to force an existing role on them, you'd be better off sticking with what you originally had in mind (monk or elementalist).

Rieselle · Jun 19, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Now this is an argument worth pursuing. Comparing elites to non-elites within the same attribute makes sense to me. Area effect skills tend to be underpowered, but are good situationally. This is probably just a bad or situational skill. Some skills are Timmy skills and are simply not good, mostly because they aren't designed for you.

I personally like ritualists as a hybrid class and in roles with don't require too mcuh movement. If you try to force an existing role on them, you'd be better off sticking with what you originally had in mind (monk or elementalist).

When did Timmy skills suddenly become "not good" ? Timmy skills are supposed to be powerful but inefficient. And in the era of computer games, preferably with flashy graphics. Something like Meteor Shower would be a Timmy skill because at the very least it has a significant effect when you meet the required conditions.

As for elite skills... I guess ANet screwed up when they called them "elite". They should have called them "extra" or "special" or some meaningless word like "limited edition". Because, looking at the list, there are very few direct-effect elites that are good when compared to normal skills. (let's dig up the ol' 100Blades vs Cyclone Axe argument!). Almost all of the good elites involve modifying skill properties or energy management.

Whether this is a good idea or not is another debate, but Clamor of Souls follows an established pattern in GW. Mind Shock anyone? Double Dragon? Life Transfer?

I get the feeling it's almost a deliberate design decision, since it happens so often.

Jestah · Jul 03, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Ok so if you're saying Ritualists should never be as offensively effective as Elementalist then what is the point in the channeling attribute at all? Unless you're making some RA hybrid nubcake build your role is EITHER offense or defense. If you invest purely in offensive skills as a ritualist then you should be every bit as effective as an ele. Just because the profession has mostly defensive potential doesn't mean you should render the one offensive attribute it has completely pointless. Why would anyone play a channeling Ritualist if an Elementalist could do the job better indefinitely.

The beauty of the balance in this game is that there's no *best* anything, skills have their advantages and disadvatages and all fit into different strategies. There are however are few completely useless skills that need addressing and clamour of souls is definitely one of them.

It seems you're speaking from some fantasy bias rather than the logic of the games balance.